[00:00:04] Speaker A: Who exactly was Mary Lee Orsini? Who was the 33 year old housewife who spun story after story to North Little Rock police detectives to explain the mysterious murder of her husband Ron Orsini on the night of March 11, 1981? Who was the woman who went out of her way to taunt one detective in particular outside his home a month later? According to Gene Lyon's book on the Orsini case, Widow's Web, the woman formerly known as Mary Myrtle Hatcher had grown up in poverty in Gravel ridge, a town 10 miles north of North Little Rock. Her father had died when she was young. Her mother Julia had driven a county school bus and worked in the school cafeteria. Julia lost that former job after being wounded in a mysterious shooting when Mary Lee was 10. At 16, Mary Lee got married for the first time to an 18 year old enlisted man in the Air Force. They would marry and divorce twice. Aside from these details, solid facts about Mary Lee Orsini before she entered the life of Ron orsini in the mid-1970s are scarce. Over the course of their investigation, which began in 1981, Sergeants T.J. farley and Buddy Miles would hear a lot of stories about Mary Lee. All of them could be considered bizarre, whether true or not, Here's a sampling of tales the detectives heard over the years. Vicki Stevens, a former neighbor of Mary Lee's, told the detectives how she liked to talk about the time that she struck and killed a young teenager near north Little Rock's McCain Mall years earlier. Stevens said that the way she talked about it so nonchalantly would make her blood run cold. Stevens told another story involving her pet Siamese cat which had to be treated by a vet after Mary Lee poured hot sauce in its mouth, then clamped it shut. Apparently Mary Lee was a terror in high school. Farley, for example, shared this story with a grand jury in 1983.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: And then I got information from Sergeant Miles. His mother went to Florida here this last two weeks ago with Lee Orsini's high school teacher from Sylvan Hills. And she told Buddy, not one time did the teacher ever refer to Lee as Lee, only as the did this, did that kept the high school in turmoil, always lying, coming up with off the wall stories and all the way through the investigation.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: In a story author Gene Lyons told Buddy Miles, Merrilee even managed to take part in the newspaper war between the Arkansas Democrat and and Arkansas Gazette years before she was making headlines in them. For reference, Mary Lee at one point worked in the marketing department at the Gazette.
[00:02:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I told you that she got fired from the Gazette. She called the circulation manager's wife and.
[00:02:34] Speaker C: Told him that they were having an affair.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: Anyway, she ended up getting fired from the Gazette and when she went over to the Democrat, they found that she took a whole bunch of confidential circulation.
[00:02:43] Speaker C: And advertising stuff with it.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: Merilee's checkered history with spouses apparently went all the way back to her first marriage.
[00:02:50] Speaker B: We've got her all the way back to 1963. Her first husband named Sudbury, which was going to be Tiffany's, Tiffany Orsini's real father. She was involved in a minor accident out at the air base in 1963 and she's going around telling everybody that her husband Sudbury was killed in it.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: That husband would later tell prosecutors his ex wife was the one person he feared most in his life.
The tales of Merrily's sordid past continue. On March 12, 1981, a fellow officer shared a story with Farley moments after the conclusion of Marilee's first interview with detectives. The officer's brother had been married to Marilee Orsini nine years earlier when she went by Mary Myrtle. According to Widow's Web, after one year of marriage, the husband had been open to formally adopting Tiffany, Marilee's daughter. After some prodding from Marilee on the day the adoption papers were to be signed, he arrived at his attorney's office to discover they want an order resulting in a delay her. However, her husband told Mary Lee in a telephone conversation that everything was finalized and the couple would be notified via mail. When he got home that afternoon, both Mary Lee and Tiffany were gone, along with all of their furniture. Divorce papers arrived two days later, along with a petition for $1,000 a month in child support. Due to his lawyer's mistake, the husband didn't have to make those payments. He also got his furniture bag. But he did lose his car and wound up saddled with Mary Lee's substantial credit card charges. Bizarre incidents and drama seemed to follow Mary Lee Orsini everywhere she went. 1981 and beyond Ron Orsini's family and the people who were part of Mary Lee's small circle of friends would get to experience it firsthand.
Decisions made in Washington affect folks in Arkansas. I'm Alex Thomas, the Washington correspondent for the Arkansas Democrat Gazette. I'm keeping a close eye on what happens in the nation's capital and how decisions and decision makers impact our state. Take, for instance, the next farm bill. We're connecting you with the policymakers drafting this legislation as well as the Arkansas farmers vital to this state's economy. I know how much these decisions matter to everyday Arkansans, which is why I'm here in Washington making sure you stay informed. This kind of coverage is only possible through your support, so consider
[email protected] ADGNow news of Ron Orsini's death on the night of March 11th didn't become public knowledge until Friday, March 13th. Even then, what would end up being just one of two murders in North Little Rock throughout the entire year wasn't front page news. It wasn't even page two news. An eight paragraph story about a man being shot in the back of the head as he slept in a locked bedroom with neither his wife or daughter apparently hearing the gun blast was relegated to page 14B in the Arkansas Democrat. In the Arkansas Gazette, the six paragraph story was placed on 17A. A few inches to the right of that story, beneath an article about a chemical spill at the port of Little Rock was an advertisement for Dillard's department store. The irony of that ad placement is possible only in hindsight and with the knowledge of what the Yarcini family's financial situation had been as the sun set two days earlier. But we'll get to that. Before Farley and Miles could make headway on the case, they would have to deal with the first of many red flags. The story and the Democrat had said there were no suspects in Ron's murder. That wasn't necessarily accurate. There's a reason Marilee Orsini was allowed to leave North Little Rock Police Headquarters to being questioned March 11, Miles would say years later and normal, not normal.
[00:06:08] Speaker C: Over jealous inexperienced rookie policeman might have arrested and when you arrest her, you've got a certain length of time to bring her to crime.
So we had many, many motives. We'd say she did it because of this, she did it because of that. But we couldn't prove that she did.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: In police parlance, the case was essentially exceptionally cleared. However, Farley Miles would see Mary Lee again very soon and often. Newspapers were still sitting on doorsteps across Arkansas when the officers received the call around 7am March 13. At least one person had read the paper and noted the item about there not being any sign to force entry at the home. Marilee Orsini needed to see Farley and Miles right away.
Farley and Miles second trip to 7412 Pontiac Avenue was apparently for a burglary. The widow who said she hadn't stayed at the house the previous night, told the Officers that someone had tampered with one of her garage doors. Miles, a burglary expert, checked it out, but all he found was that the door had jumped its track and several of its screws had been pulled loose from the bracing. It was, Miles noted, something that could only have been done from inside the garage. Then Merrily brought up the mysterious $80,000 Ron had supposedly been bringing home. Marilee said she hadn't the nerve to go into her bedroom yet and wanted them to look for the bag that contained the money. Years later, Farley told Gene Lyons he believed the detectives were being set up by Marilee so that she could later claim they stole it. Miles was tasked with looking for the alleged bag.
[00:07:35] Speaker C: There she is, sitting in the living room. She says something about the last time I saw the money or knew of it. It was up there in his closet. Have you looked up there? Yeah. What am I looking for? I don't ever see describe the bag or size of the package. What? So I go up there and I look everywhere.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: There was no sign of any bag filled with money. Merrily made it a point to make sure Miles checked again. Specifically, under a pile of sweaters on a closet shelf, I go back up.
[00:08:04] Speaker C: There and raise them up one inch, two or three from the bottom. I found these. Customs. I can't tell you if they were Trojans or peacocks, my friend, that they were brothers. I thought, punish, you want me to buy Mr. So I just put them back in there.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: On the subject of supposedly missing money, there was more. Mary lee claimed that $1,300 had gone missing from the bedroom closet two months prior. She said it vanished after a carpet cleaner had visited the home in January to give an estimate on the master bedroom. It turned out that a carpet cleaner named Chris Locke had been to the house on November 12, 1980, for an estimate on the downstairs carpet. But he never left Merrily's sight during his visit. Locke, however, left the company servicemaster soon after, and the company said they'd never sent anyone to the Orsini house after Locke's visit. In terms of the missing money, the detectives later learned that $1,300, which was Ron's Christmas bonus, had been deposited to the Orsini's bank account on the day of Locke's visit. Farley and Miles weren't the only ones being sold stories, but barely at this point in time. According to Farley, she had phoned one of her husband's work partners.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: If you go, call Pete Zinn. Several days after Ronald CD Was murdered, she said, pete, you better get over here. I found something that the police missed. Up in the attic. There was footprints all the way across the lone insulation. This is only a couple of days after Ron Marcelo's murder in March 1981.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: When Miles had searched the attic on March 12, nothing had been disturbed. Merrilee made another call that Friday after Ron's death, this one to Jan Agee, the attendance clerk at her daughter Tiffany's school. Merrilee tried to explain why she wasn't in school, to which Ag said, we're all very aware of why Tiffany isn't here today. Tiffany is very concerned about what the kids are going to think. Merrily said, I would appreciate anything you can do to get across to the kids that it was definitely not suicide, it was murder. I know they're saying that there was no evidence of forced entry, but that's a lie. Tiffany was interviewed that afternoon by Farley and Miles of police headquarters. But she wasn't the only child the cops would talk to that day. Just after 4pm the detectives were back on Pontiac Avenue, this time at a house across the street from the Orsinis. The two story home belonged to the King family. Judy King, the wife of the home, had summoned Farley and Miles. King's 10 year old daughter Tracy had seen something the night of Ron's death while sitting in her upstairs bedroom.
[00:10:12] Speaker C: See, we interviewed that little girl and she told us everything she knew. We was there eyeball to eyeball and she was sincere and saw the mother and father was real concerned but cooperative.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Tracy told them that between 11:30pm and midnight she'd seen a dark colored medium sized car drive by the Orsini house twice. The first time the car approached the residence, the interior light came on for about eight seconds and then the vehicle headed south on Osage Drive. Five minutes later, Tracy heard a car outside again. When she looked out the window, she saw the same vehicle. However, Tracy, not thinking much of it, laid back in bed and didn't see where it went.
Farley Miles went to her room and took turns sitting in the bed and looking out the window. They could see a narrow slice of Pontiac drive in front of the Orsini home. In a report filed the next month, Farley mused that it may be possible that Lee Orsini did back out of her driveway, left her car door slightly ajar so that she would not slam it and possibly wake up Tiffany or neighbors.
On Monday, March 16, five days after he was killed, Ron Orsini was laid to rest. The Navy veteran was buried at the Little Rock National Cemetery. The ceremony was attended by family and friends and more than one person in attendance who suspected Mary Le Orsini was the reason they were there to begin with. After a reception at 7412 Pontiac Drive, merrily suggested to Ron's sister Linda House that the family pay a visit to Ron's father, Joe. Joe Orsini was at nearby Baptist Medical center, slowly dying from bone cancer while his wife, Ron, and Linda's stepmother, Bernice, tended to him. Years later, Bernice recalled the visit to Gene Lyons. Linda had come to fetch Bernice, and as they exited Jo's room, Linda informed her Marilee was there and asked if she wanted to see her. Cold. Chills went all over me, bernice said. Down the hall, Meri Lee stood wearing the same dark sunglasses she'd worn at Ron's funeral. As the two approached Merilee, Bernice reached out to touch Merilee's shoulder. Merilee suddenly recoiled from her and gritted her teeth. I'll find out who killed Ron, even though it might be my brother, she declared, again implicating her brother, Ron Hatcher. You've never seen such a look on a girl's face as the look she gave me, bernice said. When Mary Lee departed the conversation to use the phone, Linda recalled her stepmother turning to her and saying, I'm going to tell you right now, Lynn, she killed your brother. At the time, Linda dismissed her. Of course, her own conversion would soon come. On March 18, two days after Ron's funeral, Farley and Miles got a second crack at Mary Lee Rossini. The widow arrived at North Little Rock police headquarters around 8am and was taken to the same room where she'd been questioned six days prior. The cast of characters sitting in the department's training room was slightly different. Mary Lee had company this time around.
[00:12:55] Speaker D: This is Sergeant T.J. farley. Date is 318 of 81 times 8:17am in the training room in the North LeBrock Police Department, about to take a voluntary statement of Mrs. Lee Orsini, President of the Rumors, Mrs. Orsini, Sergeant Miles, Sergeant Farley, Chief Judy K. Mason, and Mrs. Orsine's attorney, Will MacArthur.
[00:13:19] Speaker A: Merrily hadn't even left the first interview on March 12th when she was paired with the man now representing her. During that initial visit to police headquarters, Ron's co worker Pete Zinn had called Arkansas Court of Appeals Judge Tom Glaze for advice. Who should represent Mary Lee? Zinn had phoned Glaze because Mary Lee had worked on his most Recent election campaign, Glaze gave Zinn the names of three potential attorneys, with one of them being MacArthur. Zinn had remembered MacArthur from their time as students at Little Rock Central high school. At 42, MacArthur was 6 foot 1 with blonde hair and blue eyes. Gene Lyons, who spent a lot of time with MacArthur while writing Widow's Web, described the attorney this way.
[00:13:57] Speaker E: He was such a handsome man. He looked sort of. I mean, if you saw the pictures, he kind of looked like Paul Newman. He's a criminal defense attorney. And they talked about him as patrician, which, if you ever had met him, it's the last thing anybody would call him if they knew him. He was a guy from Clinton, Arkansas, who'd been a bull rider in a rodeo. He was not a country club guy at all, quite the opposite. But all of those things conspired, combined to make him seem very suspicious to large numbers of people who didn't know any more about it.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: One of MacArthur's longtime law partners, the now retired Jack Lassiter, began working with MacArthur in 1977. In 1981, they were working out of a house turned into an office at 2020 Broadway in Little Ro.
[00:14:41] Speaker F: It's on the corner. It's a Tudor structure, really, really pretty. Beautiful hardwood floors, red oak, I think, if I remember correctly. Big fireplace. It really wasn't set up to be a law office, but, you know, you could make just about anything a law office, and we were busy.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: This is how Lasker remembers his former colleague.
[00:15:00] Speaker F: Real gregarious guy. He liked people a lot.
Money didn't matter to him. I think he's quoted in the book. He said, I've never been interested in money, and I probably work for free more than I get paid. That's close to the quote, but that's the way he was. He couldn't say no to anybody.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: This caused problems, especially when it came to working the firm's quote, cat shit.
[00:15:26] Speaker F: Meaning stuff for which we weren't getting paid and sitting around all morning in municipal court, for which bill got paid $25 or something. I mean, I love the guy to death. If he was not innocent businessman. Great in court, great in court. Jurors just loved him just because he talked to them. Just like you're not sitting around here talking. He didn't talk down to them. He made sense to them. They liked him. I think they kind of wanted to do something for him. And I learned a lot about how to address a jury from him.
He's the biggest influence in how I conduct myself in trial.
[00:16:01] Speaker A: MacArthur's wife Alice called him, quote, the golden boy, and would jokingly say, get MacArthur if you're guilty, if you're not, you don't need him. MacArthur's time in the Little Rock court system had provided him with a different outlook on the city compared to others.
[00:16:17] Speaker E: He used to tell his wife and their friends, y'all don't have any idea what goes on in this town. You have no idea where you live. You, you think it's all about the west side Tennis Club and the, you know, long lunches and shopping and you don't have any idea what goes on in this town. I mean, he thought they were very unrealistic about life in general. And they thought, she thought, I think Alice thought she would like to him to have. She would like for him to be a different kind of lawyer now.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: The veteran attorney had been pulled into the orbit of Mary Lee Orsini.
[00:16:51] Speaker E: He was her savior. He was going to save her, he was going to rescue her from those nasty police and she certainly wanted in on his life.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: MacArthur had gone to the police station on March 12 as a favor to Glaze and visited briefly with both Merrilee and the detectives who informed him of the situation.
[00:17:11] Speaker D: I assumed she was going to be charged. They had told me, they had told me that first day that she was the suspect and that they felt they already had charge at that time.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: Not the right deal.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: However, he was never convinced of Mary Lee's guilt.
[00:17:29] Speaker D: I felt this woman was totally innocent of the charge. That's unusual for me because I'm usually not deluded about my clients.
I usually know whether they're guilty.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: The second interview with Merrilee was much shorter than the first. Most of the time was spent involved revisiting Orsini's answers from the first interview while addressing information Farley and Miles had uncovered of their previous six days.
[00:17:52] Speaker D: We've got some other questions here after we first taken from you, we read it and there's some other questions we'd like to ask you out of that first date.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: The interview began with what happened the night of March 11th. Farley asked what time Rod had come home from visiting his sick father at the hospital or seen he guest. 9 o'clock.
[00:18:08] Speaker D: Where did you watch TV with your husband?
[00:18:11] Speaker G: Downstairs.
[00:18:13] Speaker D: What did you watch on TV? Approximately how long?
[00:18:17] Speaker G: We watched the remainder of a movie that was all about a boy who the police, they chased him and he was in a van and a police officer, they faced gruppo with him and he was shot. And I don't. I don't know what the name of this.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: For those curious. The last movie Ron Orsini ever watched was called the Killing of Randy Webster, and it aired on CBS. You can watch it on YouTube.
[00:18:41] Speaker D: Did Tiffany come downstairs before. After your husband had that other bowl of Stewart?
[00:18:47] Speaker G: I don't want to be in a bowl. Stew?
[00:18:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:49] Speaker D: He didn't have anything to eat at all.
[00:18:51] Speaker G: I don't. It was. Ron was such a habitual eater. He ate a lot of meals until. I don't know if he actually ate some of them or not. There was something he did eat that I forgot to tell you. Way out the door, he took a candy bar and ate that.
[00:19:03] Speaker D: We already knew about the candy bar.
[00:19:05] Speaker A: Much of what Orsini would recount about the night of March 11 was verified by Tiffany in her own interview on March 13. However, there were some discrepancies. For instance, Tiffany remembered Ron having stew for dinner.
[00:19:17] Speaker D: At what time did Ron turn the TV off and go upstairs?
[00:19:23] Speaker G: I don't know that Ron turned the TV off.
He went upstairs and the news was on as he was going upstairs. And if I'm not mistaken, I think I turned the television set off.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:19:35] Speaker D: Did. Were you with Ron at the time that he got ready for bed?
[00:19:41] Speaker G: Not exactly.
I mean, he was. He was downstairs. We had on sweater and shirt, pants and shoes and stuff. And the next time that I saw him went upstairs, he was in his undershorts.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:19:53] Speaker G: And he was fooling with his scanner on the side of the bed.
[00:19:55] Speaker D: Where was Tiffany at this time?
[00:19:57] Speaker G: I think she was in the bedroom or the bathroom. She was. I was trying to get her activated.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:20:05] Speaker D: Was Tiffany asleep when you got into bed with her?
[00:20:09] Speaker G: I don't think so.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: The second discrepancy was that Tiffany did not recall her mother getting into bed with her. Merilee also said she had briefly laid in her own bed that night and watched tv. But according to Tiffany, the TV had been in her own room all night. Eventually, the family finances came up. Miles asked Merrilee about the boat Ron had purchased, or thought he had just five days before his death.
[00:20:31] Speaker C: Talk about the boat. Now, was there any argument between you and Ron concerning him buying this boat?
[00:20:39] Speaker G: No.
[00:20:43] Speaker C: We've learned, and we know that you know that the two checks that Ron wrote concerning the boats to the two boat companies have been returned insufficient.
Do you know how this would happen?
[00:20:53] Speaker G: No, I don't, because I cannot imagine. Ron Graham. Check. You know, without money being.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: Then came a question based on information provided by Cindy King, the girl who lived across from 7412 Pontiac.
[00:21:05] Speaker C: Would there have been any reason for you to have left the home approximately 11:30pm Wednesday night in your black Chevrolet?
[00:21:13] Speaker G: I did not.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: Okay. Farley later referred directly to the first interview transcript asking about Mary Lee's knowledge of the lock on her bedroom door, which she claimed to have opened with a meat skewer.
[00:21:23] Speaker D: There's a half sentence in there, basically broke down to, you didn't know how to open the door. When you put the whole statement together.
This is referring to my question. When you first woke up, why didn't you make an attempt to get into the room then? And you stated that you didn't know how. And then later on you decided to get this skewered and get in the door. How did you learn how to get in the door?
[00:21:45] Speaker G: Well, to be honest, the reason I called Rod and I mean, this is not something I was just. Just me. Rod was so particular about things getting scratched, things getting damaged. I mean, even my automobile, you know, he was scraping my tires, which I have a bad habit done. And I could do it without damaging the lock or something. And I had never gotten into a room like that. And, you know, after I called and been in the house for a little bit and he got, called me back and come back in, I just, you know, I just didn't want to run anymore. So I thought, well, I'm going to make an attempt to do it, not even realizing I could actually do it.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Farley then pressed on one of the differences in her testimony and Tiffany's.
[00:22:23] Speaker D: In your first statement, you advised that there was nothing particular to eat in the house.
You know, the morning that you woke.
[00:22:31] Speaker G: Up, my daughter did not want to eat what was in the house, but there was food in the house.
[00:22:34] Speaker D: Okay.
In her statement, she advised that you suggested you on the night, on Wednesday night, let's eat out in the morning.
[00:22:43] Speaker G: Well, I had.
[00:22:44] Speaker D: Do you remember saying that to her?
[00:22:45] Speaker G: I probably did because I had promised her several times that we would go in in the morning and she had made a statement to me. Some of her friends did that. And you know, that very well could be true back in the time.
[00:22:59] Speaker A: The questioning then turned to all the evidence found in the Orsini's garage, specifically the obvious gouge marks found on the doors leading into the house.
[00:23:07] Speaker D: Did you see any sore dust inside between the two doors?
It would have been right on the door frame itself. And down on the first step.
[00:23:15] Speaker A: Merrily gave no audible answer. They eventually reached the point in the interview which required Bill MacArthur's expertise.
[00:23:21] Speaker D: So here and I just. With your attorney, Mr. MacArthur. And you want to delay first before you give me an answer immediately on it or consult with your attorney. I'll understand. First, I'll ask the question. You just hold back. And if he's got something to say, he will interject at that time. It's very pointed questions and it concerns the crime. Did you kill your husband?
[00:23:41] Speaker C: No, sir.
[00:23:42] Speaker D: All right. Did you fire the gun that killed your husband?
[00:23:45] Speaker G: I don't know. What gun? Kill us?
[00:23:47] Speaker A: All right.
[00:23:47] Speaker D: Did you ever wrap a towel around the gun that may have killed your husband?
[00:23:51] Speaker G: I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I don't know that I ever. Are you saying one of his guns killing.
[00:23:55] Speaker D: I'm not saying that. Did you ever wrap a towel around the gun that killed your husband?
[00:24:00] Speaker G: I don't really know how to answer that because I don't know that I. Yeah, sure don't. I don't want to know because I don't get every.
[00:24:06] Speaker C: Asking a question properly. Maybe she can answer it. Well, I think what he's asking is.
[00:24:13] Speaker D: Did you wrap a towel around this.
[00:24:14] Speaker C: Gun and shoot your husband?
No.
[00:24:19] Speaker A: A brief flash forward. On April 25, more than a month after Ron Orsini's death, Farley and Miles would interview Jan Ag, the attendance coordinator at Tiffany School. Ag recounted a conversation she had with Tiffany on March 17 related to her not having a PE suit with her that day. Ag recalled Tiffany saying, quote, well, the police think my mother took a towel and wrapped it around the gun and shot my dad. And the PE Suit was in the dirty clothes. And they scooped it up altogether, and it's at the police station. Farley and Miles didn't even ask Merilee about their towel theory until the second interview on March 18.
[00:24:50] Speaker D: Are you part of any conspiracy to kill your husband?
[00:24:53] Speaker C: I don't know what that means.
[00:24:54] Speaker D: Were you not any conspiracy to kill your husband?
[00:24:57] Speaker G: Another pink.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:24:59] Speaker G: No.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:25:01] Speaker D: Would one of your close friends be in on this conspiracy to kill your husband?
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Whoa, whoa.
[00:25:10] Speaker C: Next question.
[00:25:11] Speaker D: Do you still beat your wife?
Do you deny any conspiracy allows you to do anything to your husband?
[00:25:18] Speaker A: Right.
[00:25:23] Speaker D: Do you suspect any of your close friends being in on a conspiracy?
[00:25:28] Speaker G: Not close. Not close friends.
[00:25:30] Speaker D: Do you still suspect any of your close relatives to be on a conspiracy?
[00:25:34] Speaker G: The only person that I would even. I would surmise and suspect would be my brother because he's the only person I know that had any ill feelings toward my brother.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: The interview wound up, and Farley and Miles got back to the money of it all.
[00:25:49] Speaker D: Would you allow us access to all your banking transactions at Commonwealth and also Metropolitan National Bank?
[00:25:56] Speaker A: Neither Orsini or MacArthur saw any problem with that. At 8:42am the interview ended. At the conclusion of the second interview with Mary Lee, detectives Farley and Miles started following the money Everyone loves a good place to eat, and few things are more discouraging than spending good money on a bad meal. I'm Eric Harrison and I write for the Style section at the Arkansas Democrat Gazette. Knowing where to go, what to try and how much you'll shell out go long way toward making sure readers find the experience they are looking for rather than paying for big disappointment. Help us create a marketplace where consumers can rely on reviews and make informed choices by
[email protected] ADGNow Armed with subpoenas, Farlane Miles showed up to the offices of Metropolitan national bank and other financial institutions in late March to better understand the Orsini's finances and in what shape was the couple's finances. As of March 12, 1981, Ron and Mary Lee Orsini had less than $15 in their bank accounts. There was no way that the two $2,700 checks Ron used to pay for his new boat on March 6th were not going to bounce.
[00:27:02] Speaker C: I don't think he ever knew the check bounce before he died. That's probably the straw that broke the camel back when she decided she need to get rid of him because Sandra just comes crashing down.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: Another of the Orsini's savings accounts at a separate bank had bottomed out at $5 back in September. Then there was the family income, which in 1981 was only coming from Ron's business. Miles said, quote, it blows my mind that the previous year Ron only brought home $18,000. Among the family's monthly expenses was $770 for the mortgage on their home and $903 to the Dillard's department store. Farley and Miles learned of a confrontation Ron had with a Dillard's credit manager the previous November over nearly 20,000 doll Merrily had purchased, which now sat in the family's living room. Do you know me? Ron asked the credit manager. No, he said. Do you know my wife? Again, no. Just why the hell did you give her $20,000 worth of furniture then? I wouldn't give me $20,000 worth of furniture. Then Farley and Miles obtained Marilee's application for Dillard's credit card from 1978. It was obvious to them that Marilee had filled it out herself and Signed Ron's name to get approval. Farley Miles would find her Ford's signature on other documents as well, including a $7,600 check from a title company for the closing of the Orsini's previous home. In hindsight, it's possible Merilee didn't fully expect the detectives to delve into her finances, Even though the officers had asked for her permission to do so. Miles recalled an unexpected encounter he and Farley had with her on April 1.
[00:28:26] Speaker C: He kept stacking up, but nothing that would put the gun in her hand or put the contract to the man. We had nothing to arrest her on. A lot of suspicion because of their financial feelings, her clandestine kneeling, so to speak. We were up at the fawcett building one time where she did this real estate via 2,500 building up here on mccain.
[00:28:49] Speaker A: The faucet building is a two story structure on main street in downtown north little rock. Farley and Miles were visiting the first floor insurance company first pyramid life. Their visit was about the mortgage insurance on 7412 Pontiac Drive.
[00:29:02] Speaker C: She came downstairs. We didn't know she was there. We were there looking at the records that are real estate records. And we met her face to face. And we were all just kind of stunned. This would have been about eight. Yeah. She said, can I talk to you? And I told her, I said, mary, you've got a lawyer. You can do any talking you want to do, but you better listen to him. Well, I just want to ask y'all one question. I said, we'll answer it again. You got my phone tapped? I said, and she said, my phone tapped. I said, ma'am, I don't know that your phone tapped or not, but if you're asking if we've tapped your phone, we have not. But we're not telling your phone not tapped because we don't know. We haven't done that. We haven't seen it. We haven't done that with it. So if you think the phone's tapped, you better look somewhere else. We didn't do it. She said, okay, thank you.
She had been telling some things to some people she thought was her friends. They had been calling us, telling us the same information of the conversation they had, Thinking they were helping her. And then in our conversation with her or lawyer or whoever, the information she gave out was getting back to her. So she thought we had her contact. Well, we didn't. Every time she'd talk somebody, they'd call us and say, mary said this, or mary said that. Will this Help Mary? Will that help Mary? Will this hurt Mary?
[00:30:19] Speaker B: You know, this being these people being.
[00:30:22] Speaker C: In concern, but this being Hulk Murphy, Anybody? Linda House, Anybody? You know, just so happened that through their concern either for or guilt or innocent on her part, they were calling us.
She just couldn't believe that we were getting information. She just spoke yesterday. You know, we had it.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: The next day, the cops Learned of a $100,000 credit life insurance policy that Mary Lee had purchased in July 1980 to cover payment of the family's home. Unbeknownst to Mary Lee, that policy expired when the note became delinquent in Dec 1980. Here's another number. $350,000. That's how much Mary Lee Rossini could have made from the death of her husband if, of course, things had gone according to plan. Had Ron Orini been alive and home on March 12, 1981, he would have received a call at 10:30am from his personal banker, Betty Tucker, informing him about his family's delinquent $30,000 loan and that he was basically broke. Instead, when Deckard called the Orsini house that day, Ron's partner Pete Zinn answered and told the banker Ron was dead.
Through all of this, Mary Lee continued to play innocent. And now she had a lie detector test requested by her attorney, Bill MacArthur to back it up, sort of, and.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: I might add that she was more than willing to take them. One was done in North Little Rock and the master told me that she showed strong reactions to almost every question I asked, indicating deception or some other problem.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: Oh, that seems bad.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: As a result of that, I took her to see a man named Gwen. He was retired from the state police. I knew him better than I did the other man. So I talked to him a little more and he told me that she was showing some very strong reactions even to some of the control questions, which indicated to him at least a strong guilt feeling. After that, I talked to her. She swore to me that she had told him the absolute truth. She couldn't understand why the test would show it the way it did, but she said she did have very strong guilt feelings concerning her husband's death. So my Senator Doug Stevens tried to get to the root of that problem.
[00:32:29] Speaker A: Stevens was local psychologist.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: Did Ms. Orsini ever make her report to you following her sessions with Dr. Stevenson? I had some discussion with her about her sessions, yes. Did she indicate to you whether or not it was helpful? I don't. I don't know whether it's helpful or not. If you judge from the third Polygraph, I'd say it probably was that one, I might add. She did not show deception according to the polygraph operator, except on one question. Recall what they claim? Yes, I do.
Do you know who killed Ronald Racini?
The explanation on. On that question, it was because she so firmly believed that her brother was responsible for her husband's death.
[00:33:14] Speaker A: Years later, Gene Lyons would interview Mary Lee's old friend Mary Jane Murphy and Gary Glidewell, one of the PIs she hired to investigate Ron's murder. Murphy and Glidewell wound up getting married. Here's one anecdote that Glidewell shared related to lie detectors.
[00:33:28] Speaker C: She asked me to go through the house. I also found in her house, underneath a bunch of clothing and everything, a book written by a professor from the University of Wisconsin. I think it was called Trimmer in the Blood. Tremor in the Blood was a study that the university had done on the accuracy of the polygraph. And it had told how. How people beat it, how they could beat it. So I let it lay for a while now. She'd taken these polygraph tests and I let it lay for quite a while.
[00:33:57] Speaker D: And I went to her one day.
[00:33:58] Speaker C: And I said, Lee, I want to get a copy of it. There's a certain book I get a hold of. It's called Prima and Blood. You know, I set her up for this.
[00:34:06] Speaker D: This?
[00:34:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:07] Speaker C: Weeks later, before ever after.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: That wasn't the only thing he would see at Mary Lee's house.
[00:34:13] Speaker B: Gone over there.
[00:34:13] Speaker C: And she had those photographs for me and she wanted me to see these photographs and I would had them at her kitchen table.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: Photographs of what?
[00:34:22] Speaker C: All types of photographs.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: I wonder how the hell she got a hold of those.
[00:34:27] Speaker A: In addition to autopsy photos, there was also crime scene photos from Ron's murder. And Farley had a theory on how Mary Lee had gotten a hold of them.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: I tried to run that down here several weeks ago. These were processed. These pictures were processed at James Bird Studio. I'm sorry. And he's related to Larry Burge?
[00:34:48] Speaker A: For the time being. Don't worry about Larry Birge. We'll get to him later.
[00:34:52] Speaker B: There's a possibility that there was duplicates made. Now I've got the negatives, but, you know, as fast as they can print those things up, they could have made two sets on them. I asked Dr. Mallet flat out, I said, did you give any pictures to anybody connected in the Orcens case? And he speaks only emphatically no. But I got word that this Mary Jane Murphy supposedly found some of the crime scene in the autopsy in Lee's bedroom while she was up there trying to get the house ready for sale, that Lee had possession of some of the autopsy pictures and the crime scene photos. Now, I don't have any of the autopsy, that's Dr. Mallets, but the crime scene, that's what was really bugging me.
[00:35:42] Speaker A: On June 1, the words grand jury were first used in print in relation to the Ron Orsini murder case in a page 7B story in the Arkansas Democrat. The story said that the North Little Arc Police Department had requested a grand jury from Prosecuting Attorney Wilbur C. Dub Bentley at least one month earlier. This case is one in which they put an enormous amount of work, bentley told the paper. It would mark the start of a very interesting month for any and all things Orsini related. For the most part, headlines over the first two weeks of June related to the Orsini case had been tame. They related to a legal battle over merrily becoming the executor of Ron's estate after she was initially given control. A Judge ruled on June 4 that Union national bank would take over the role. On June 8, there was another alarming episode involving the Orsini family, but this one only warranted a 10 paragraph story in the Arkansas Democrat and two brief paragraphs on page 7A of the Gazette in subsequent days. Late in the day, Linda House received a call from an aunt telling her that something was wrong with Linda's mother, Gladys Orsini. The aunt said Gladys had sounded strange and frightened during a phone conversation. When Linda phoned her mother, I could tell something was wrong, she told Jean Lyons. I said, mother, is someone there? She said, yes. Who is it? Mother, can you talk? Gladys said, no. Linda raced from her home in nearby Cabot to Gladys home in North Little Rock. When she arrived, the door was open and Gladys was sitting on a couch. You could not see the white of her face for blood, linda said. According to a report filed by the North Little Rock police officer who responded to the scene around 7:15pm that day, Gladys could not remember how she received a large cut to her forehead. There was a substantial amount of blood on the rug in the living room as well as on a tablecloth next to it. Gladys had scratch marks on her right arm and blood under her broken fingernails. Quote the victim stated that the injury occurred around 4:30pm and that there was someone in the apartment with her, but she refuses to identify the person. At Linda's insistence, Sergeants Farley and Miles eventually arrived at the apartment to check on things. But by the time they got there, Gladys was no longer sure someone had been with her and was claiming she'd been assaulted from behind at her front door after coming home from work. This didn't make sense to Farley Miles. The 60 year old woman was wearing a nightgown while a dinner she had placed in the oven was clearly burnt. If we assume the truth of the story that Gladys was in fact assaulted, possibly by her own daughter in law, it would fit into a campaign of intimidation tactics Mary Lee Orsini likely used against the Orsinis throughout 1981. For instance, the grave of Ron and Linda's father Joe was found desecrated. The tombstone was destroyed and a portrait of him that had been placed at the gravesite had been smashed to pieces. In mid November of that year, months after the eventual grand jury, someone broke into the home of Linda and Buddy House. The culprit didn't steal anything, but did in fact ransack the place. A police report stated that, quote, everything in the home had been turned over and it appeared to be closer to vandalism than burglary. Throughout this entire ordeal, however, the House family also received a barrage of phone calls in which the caller hung up as soon as someone in the house answered the phone.
[00:38:34] Speaker G: She would, when I would answer the phone, I would get hung up on if Buddy would answer the phone, she.
[00:38:39] Speaker C: Would ask for me and then hang up.
[00:38:44] Speaker G: The only two times that she called that Buddy answered the phone, I was not there. But my God, he knew her voice. He'd been talking to her, you know. Yeah, but the rest of the time, I mean the calls would come late, late at night, late at night and.
[00:38:58] Speaker B: She would just call and hang up.
[00:39:00] Speaker G: I would, you know, I might say hello two times or whatever.
[00:39:04] Speaker C: She'd click.
[00:39:06] Speaker B: For what earthly reason do you know? I mean, just keeping the pressure tactic.
[00:39:10] Speaker G: I think it was just something to let us know that, you know, somebody was out there. Whether it was her trying to convince us that it was the mafia or her trying to convince us that back out, we better be scared. I don't know.
[00:39:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:39:23] Speaker A: In totality, members of Ron Orini's extended family lived in a near constant state of fear. According to Buddy House, she had a scare.
[00:39:31] Speaker B: I mean we had to live in fear for a year and a half. I mean just fear. Every day I go to bed at night, well, gunning right beside me on the bed, it wouldn't be down 4, it'd be in my hand. I seen people walk down that hall, my, at nighttime, just imagine people walking down, you know, at night, see them come in, you know. Yeah, of course. My daughter was young. We was worried about her getting off the bus, you know, in the evening, Sergeant Farley told us about checking underneath the car for bomb, you know, she had us scared. That plum scared. The general public was on her side, you know.
[00:40:04] Speaker A: Then came June 14, 1981. Around 2am The North Little Rock Police Department received yet another call from 7412 Pontiac, again for a burglary. When officers arrived, they found Marilee standing in her doorway wearing a torn nightgown, holding a gun and screaming. The responding officers in question were not Farley and Miles. They purposely stayed away from whatever this was going to be.
[00:40:27] Speaker C: We intentionally let another officer investigate. They started assigning it to us because it was connected. And we decided no, I said, independent, outside the investigation. Look at this. Maybe you'll have some fresh ideas. We have decided she's it.
[00:40:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:40] Speaker C: Everything we had pointed to her.
[00:40:42] Speaker A: Located at the bottom of the front page in the next day's Arkansas Gazette was a story merrily unspooled for staff writer Mark Oswald. Mary Lee said that while checking the doors of her home to make sure they were locked and while carrying a gun, she had surprised an intruder in her den. She said she caught the man as he removed white bags from a hidden compartment in the bottom of a bookcase that he had pried open. I never knew it was there, merrilee told Oswald. She claimed the man then placed the two white bags under the shirt portion of a jogging suit he was wearing. He told me, I'm not here to hurt you, and asked me not to shoot him, Marilee said. Then he grabbed me under my right arm and by the hair of my head, and I whirled and the gun went off. The man released Merrilee and she ran upstairs. Once she stopped hearing the man making noise, she went downstairs to call the police. As with the gunshot that had ended Ronald Rossini's life, Tiffany apparently didn't hear this gunshot either. The officers who had responded to the Orsini home noted that there was a bullet hole in the den window. While the bullet had lodged in an outside wall, a window on the door leading from the garage to the house had been broken and the door's burglar alarm had been disarmed. Mary Lee, however, posited that it was possible that Tiffany hadn't set the alarm. Several items had been removed from the bookcase as well and placed around the din floor. A tool for prying something ajar had been used to lift the bottom shelf Ms. Orsini said she didn't think of drugs when trying to decide what could have been in the bags. Oswald wrote in his newspaper article, there's a large amount of money missing around my husband's death. And I thought of that. Merrilee told him, I don't know what is happening. A week ago my mother's apartment was broken into. So many things happened and I don't know what is related and what's unrelated. Nothing seems relevant and then all of it does. Farley and Miles, however, had a pretty good idea what was going on.
[00:42:21] Speaker B: She fired a shot. Tiffany's supposed to be upstairs. And still Tiffany didn't hear it. And they were in the house over 30 minutes before she said, oh my God, my daughter's upstairs. And the guys had to run upstairs and literally break open the door to get Tiffany. She had $4,400 worth of drapes put in that home prior to the murder. I took photographs and stuff inside the home. Sergeant Lambertson in June of 81 also took photographs. Once she did, she took down the good drapes, put up the old drapes, fired a shot through it. Most likely she fired the shot before, before you know, Tiffany was even home. So that's why the girl didn't hear the shot during the phony Burberry she took. It's a built in cabinet and she's calling it a secret compartment and stuff like that that was built at the time the house was built. And the Orsini's didn't live there. It dried up the bottom, you got space about that far below there. And Lamberson took samples and planted to the crime lab to make sure there wasn't any cocaine in the dust. When I looked at his photographs, it shows one set of two marks. Now if you put something in there, you have to have two sets. One from Ron or scene prying it up and putting it back down, hiding allegedly cocaine in there. And then second burglar had to come in and pry it up. There's only one set of tool marks, so we knew it was phony.
[00:43:39] Speaker A: By Monday, the incident was already being addressed by Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Lloyd Haynes, who would be overseeing the grand jury that was to be held in July for Ron Rossini's murder. Whether it's real or false, it will have some bearing on the case. Certainly, Haynes told the Arkansas Democrat. Real or not, Linda House was not amused by her sister in law making it appear as if her late brother had been involved in something unsavory.
[00:44:00] Speaker G: And in the meantime, knowing that in her way she's degrading Ron. I mean it was just, you can't imagine the feeling here. It's not only that I've lost my brother, but here's this woman trying to make people think that he's, he's on drugs and he's in with the mafia and he's, you know.
Have you ever hated, you ever hated anybody?
[00:44:24] Speaker B: I don't think like you're talking about horrible, horrible theater.
[00:44:29] Speaker G: Horrible theater.
[00:44:30] Speaker A: The grand jury probe into the death of Ron Orsini began on Wednesday, July 8th. Sergeant Farley would be the first witness for the prosecution. He brought with him a thick 39 page document with 162 individual entries. The document, titled Summation of the Ron Orini Homicide was of great assistance in the writing of this podcast. Other witnesses that day included Tiffany, Jan, ag, Ron Hatcher and medical examiner Fanny Malik, who brought with him a model of Ron Orini's skull to show jurors how and where the man was killed. Day two brought a curveball for Farley and the prosecution. Though she wasn't publicly identified at the time, 10 year old Cindy King went before the grand jury to share her story about seeing a vehicle in front of 7412 Pontiac the night of Ron's murder. Cindy approached Farley before she testified and said, I hope you don't get mad, but I kind of changed my story. The detectives later told Gene Lyons. Upon hearing this, Farley looked up and saw Merrilee sitting next to Cindy's mother, smiling. So now the little girl says it's a dirty car with loud mufflers jacked up in the back, said Farley. He would tell young Sidney, what you need to do is just tell the truth. On July 13, Betty Tucker, the Orsini's personal banker, testified having been deeply suspicious of Mary Lee in the wake of Ron's death. Tucker had kept the family's financial documents under lock and key in her office to ensure they were given directly to investigators. She seemed to have no apprehension at all even with the testimony that I was giving, which obviously was opposite to what she was giving, tucker told Jean Lyons. She recalled merrily hugging her neck and it feeling like a rattlesnake.
[00:45:59] Speaker B: Foreign.
[00:46:08] Speaker A: Over the course of two days, July 21st and 22nd, during the grand jury's investigation and against the advice of Bill MacArthur merrily testified she had superior control of herself, said jury foreman E. Granger Williams. There were times she expressed indignation that anybody could doubt her. She was lying. She had no Star wars on that jury. I don't remember a thing that went on where anybody was supportive of her, but there was still a major problem. I personally felt she was guilty as she could be, brown said. I just couldn't figure out how she did it or how we could prove it.
After hearing testimony from more than 50 witnesses spread out over nine days in July, as well as a 30 minute visit to Marilee's home in just one hour of deliberation, the grand jury made its decision the night of July 27th. Their official announcement, however, wasn't made until the next morning.
[00:46:58] Speaker H: Many people believe that the next big thing in Arkansas is lithium Hi, I'm Ainslie Platt, an environment reporter at the Arkansas Democrat Gazette. For months, I've been covering efforts to bring lithium extraction to Arkansas and the roadblocks that have popped up along the way. The lithium held in the brines underneath south Arkansas could help the US Meet its goal of developing a domestic site supply of a critical mineral that powers everything from electric vehicles to iPhones. However, a recent Arkansas Oil and Gas Commission decision has thrown a new wrench in those efforts, potentially endangering hundreds of millions in investment and extraction projects. I want to make sure you stay informed about how these decisions might affect you and your community. If you find this kind of reporting valuable, you can support my work by
[email protected] ADGNow readers of the July 29.
[00:47:44] Speaker A: Issue of the Arkansas Gazette couldn't miss the grand jury's decision. Just below the paper's masthead was a photo of veterinarian Charles H. Wols, Merrilee's new boyfriend, popping a bottle of champagne in her kitchen with a startled Merrily. Just behind him, a headline written in bold black letters announced Jury Issues, no Indictments, Orsini case remains Open. The ink on the no True bill from the grand jury had barely dried before a celebration began at 7412 Pontiac Drive. In the event she wasn't indicted, Marilee Orsini's closest friends had planned on an intimate affair. Family and friends, but Merrily had other plans. The media also converged on the Orsini resident, at Mary Lee's invitation. They were already there when we got there, mary Jane Murphy told Lyons. Inside the home, the first thing Murphy saw was Mary Lee, giddily locked in an embrace with wools on a couch she had purchased from Dillard's back in December. She was sitting in his lap and living room, crawling all over him, murphy said. It was unbelievable.
Among the reporters present was C.S. heinbachel the Gazette's young court reporter at the time, who had covered the grand jury proceedings.
[00:48:49] Speaker B: I just remember that she had a bunch of people there and, you know, why she would invite me didn't make any sense. Bill MacArthur came to the party late and he saw that I was there and that a photographer was there. I mean, you know, first of all, it didn't make any sense. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't a terminal event on that case. They just meant that at that point they didn't have enough evidence. They thought that they were, they were close. But, you know, presenting to the grand jury told them that they didn't have quite enough evidence to prosecute her. It was, you know, there was no reason to celebrate because the investigation would go on. But apparently she didn't understand that. And then when Bill MacArthur got there.
[00:49:30] Speaker C: He, he, you know, he, I, I.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: Think I remember him taking her aside and giving her a lecture.
[00:49:36] Speaker A: But Hindbuckle remembered correctly. Tiffany had phoned MacArthur to invite him to attend the party. Dismayed at the idea of his client celebrating in such a public fashion, MacArthur rushed over around 5pm in a futile attempt to stop the party and the media attention.
[00:49:51] Speaker C: I heard about that and I went over there to try to stop.
[00:49:54] Speaker D: Discouraged, somebody pressed, they were there.
[00:49:58] Speaker C: I walked in, I took her in.
[00:50:00] Speaker B: Another room, talked to her for a.
[00:50:01] Speaker D: Few minutes and told her I thought this was a stupid idea.
[00:50:05] Speaker A: He later shared of Gene Lyons that quote, I told her it looked like she was having a victory celebration. She knew I was angry. Gary Glidewell, the Kansas City cop turned private investigator hired by Marilee, had to navigate a front yard full of reporters to get in the house. I believe very strongly there was a conspiracy. Gladwell told him we foiled someone's attempts to clear the murder by railroading someone intended for her to take the route for the crime. Mary Lee herself teased reporters about the case. She claimed a, quote, upstanding businessman was responsible for her husband's murder and that the crime was, quote, a vendetta directed at me. At some point that day, a local television reporter from katv, who may have been the one to inform her the jury's decision, interviewed Mary Lee in her living room. I was very happy. Elated is the word I should say, she said while sitting on her Dillard's couch. I'm glad this part of it is over with. So now we can start from March 12th and go pursue an active investigation. I'm not going to get off the face of this earth until I find out who killed Ron. I'm obsessed with that. I intend to know that. I owe that to him and I owe it to my girls. She told the reporter she thought that the term prime suspect was overused when it came to her and the investigation into Ron's murder. Asked if she had any ill feelings toward those who were investigating the crime, Orsini gave a sly smile before answering. I would be lying if I said no. There's some animosity against the North Little Rock Police Department, particularly a couple of detectives, the way they've handled the investigation. The most eyebrow raising thing Orsini said that day, however, was in Heinebuckle's newspaper story. At least the heat's off me, she was quoted as saying. Obviously, Farley and Miles weren't happy with the grand jury's decision. And Pulaska county prosecutor Dub Bentley, according.
[00:51:40] Speaker E: To Lyons, they were very mad at Doug Bentley. They thought that he sold them out. But Bentley's feeling was they, they never put the gun in her hand. They had no witnesses and no weapon. And Bentley, said the prosecutor, there's no statute of limitations on murder and I don't want to try her and have her get off. And once they indict someone, as I'm sure you know, the speedy trial clock starts running. And he wasn't confident they had a case. Then when you think about all the circumstantial evidence they had, it does seem, it seemed very obvious to them that a jury would, would convict her. But he wasn't sure they would. And he had an awful lot of experience. Yes, they were angry, but they eventually understood we've got to get more. But they knew a lot more about her than she knew that they knew.
[00:52:28] Speaker A: On the bright side, for Farley and Miles, Mary Lee was free to be charged with the crime at any point in the future. People could only buy what Mary Lee was selling for so long. That was even true of those she'd hired to look into Ron's murder. Eventually, Glidewell began questioning what Mary Lee was telling him.
[00:52:43] Speaker C: When she really came apart with me is when I began to check on her stories. I began to check on her stories. I even went to Wolves to check on her stories. And Wolves, to this day, I don't know whether Wolves was sincere with me or not. But he seemed totally shocked when I went to him with some of the stories that she had told me implicating him and some things. He was totally, he appeared to be totally shocked. Then he went back to her and told her that I've been out there Questioning him about some of these things. And she come completely apart about why was I investigating her. And I said, lee, I told you from the very beginning that I would help you, but I was obligated to know the truth. And if the chips fell on you, I was obligated to take my evidence to the district attorney. I told you that from the very beginning. She said, yes, yes, she did. She said, and she looked at me and she says, but let me tell you something, I could be that her eyes, I swear to God, I saw her eyes just turn completely cold, just like Steven. She says, I can be very, very dangerous. I said, I know that.
[00:54:05] Speaker A: When the first anniversary of Ron Orsini's murder arrived in March 1982, it marked Mary Lee's return to news headlines. In a Heinbachel story on page 16A of the Arkansas Gazette, the headline read, orsini slang remains a mystery, Widow investigates. We haven't stopped working on it. North Little Rock police chief Bill Yonts was quoted as saying, it's a hard one. You really need a break on it. Mary Lee said she was treating the investigation of Ron's death just like a job. She told Heimbuckle she had left her job as an advertising counselor and was working on a book about the case. It would be, quote, a tribute to my husband, merrilee said. But she had left that job long before her husband's death. She was now also claiming that, quote, police intelligence sources had warned her about a hit put out against her. Someone obviously wants us off it, Marilee said. I don't have any idea what I'm fighting, but I don't intend to give up. Just like one of the early stories that reported Ron's death the year prior, the one year anniversary story also appeared right next to a Dillard's ad.
On March 31, TJ Farley submitted a case update to Chief you. It was simply blunt. All persons considered major suspects in the rotten orini murder on March 12, 1981, were still suspects. Nothing had been found to make the investigators believe otherwise. All the info that Mary Lee Rossini had offered through the prosecutor's office, the grand jury and her own defense team had been, quote, checked out. It has either come back as blatant, innocent, outright lies or leads that just run to dead ends with no logical conclusion. Farley declared. Most of the information is just to keep the investigating officers occupied and attempting to occupy the time of the officers away from the true suspect in the case. Unknown to Farley and everyone else, the story of Mary Leorcini was about to escalate in an explosive way next week on the Orsini Tapes.
[00:55:59] Speaker G: We talked about it for months, whether she was faking it or not. I mean, we talked at length about it.
[00:56:04] Speaker F: I'm not believing any of this. That first thing to my mind, this is, yeah, this did not happen.
[00:56:11] Speaker B: I was kind of hollering at her, but I mean, it was because I was worried about her. I said, well, you're gonna mess around and you're gonna get killed, or they might even try to get your fellow. I was referring to the supposedly killers that had killed her, her husband.
[00:56:27] Speaker D: The Orsini Tapes is a production of.
[00:56:29] Speaker C: The Arkansas Democrat Gazette.
[00:56:31] Speaker D: The show is written and hosted by.
[00:56:32] Speaker C: Daniel McFadden and Tony Holt and is.
[00:56:35] Speaker D: Produced by Kyle McDaniel.
[00:56:39] Speaker A: The archive audio for this podcast came from three sources. The North Little Rock Police Department, the Pulaski County Prosecutor's Office, in the Gene Lyons Collection at the University of Arkansas Library. A special thanks to Juliette Robinson for the hours she spent digitizing Gene Lyons tapes. We are deeply thankful.
